Regimental HQ Troop 2nd Dargoon Gaurds, Queen's Bays?

[NDNG_Iron_Tom]

I have all three squadrons (2 x Crusader, 1 x Grant) for the Bays circa 1942 done. So I figure to complete the project, I need to do the Regimental HQ troop. I thought somewhere I had seen an OOB for the Regiment for the Bays that showed M3 Honeys for the Regt HQ Troop even when Crusaders and Grants filled the squadrons. But I can't recall where I say that regimental laydown and I wanted to check before I trued to add anther platoon of tanks.

Let me know if you know what the Bays should have for a Regt HQ before they transitioned to Shermans.

[KillerAngel]

Just looked through my copy of Mark Bevis' Helion Order of Battle 1, and unfortunately it doesn't break out the Bays specifically during that time period like it does for other regiments. Maybe one of the two supplements has it, but I still need to get them.

The most helpful thing I could find is a source showing tank strengths from crusader to el alamein. For Galaza, they indicate a grand total of 2 Stuarts for the entirety of 2nd Armoured Brigade. Maybe they were in the Bays HQ?
http://web.archive.org/web/200010181043 ... atanks.htm

Otherwise, I can't find anything to suggest they wouldn't have just had Crusaders for the Regimental HQ but nothing definitive. Most of the OOB focus seems to be on either Crusader of El Alamein.

[NDNG_Iron_Tom]

Great site. Thanks for sharing it.

I suppose the two Honeys in the 2nd Armoured BDE could also be FO tanks?

[KillerAngel]

It's certainly a possibility, though I'm not sure if they would report tanks from attached artillery units.

I'm still trying to figure out how they get to 130 Crusaders, unless they're running 5 troop squadrons (Bevis has 4 troops per Crusader squadron). 3 regiments, each with two crusader squadrons, 16 crusaders per squadron (4 troops of 3x and HQ of 4x) plus RHQ of 4x and Brigade HQ of 10x only comes out to 118.
If they are all 5 troop squadrons (19 tanks total), that jumps to 136 total crusaders. So it's possible of that extra 6, two were Stuarts and the other four missing from the Brigade HQ. If that's true, no real way to tell where those two Stuarts fit in.

Another interpretation would be 2 of the squadrons were 4 troop squadrons and the rest 5 troop squadrons, which would total squarely at 130 crusaders, suggesting the two Stuarts are indeed RHA OPs.

Hopefully this isn't muddying the waters too much.

[NDNG_Iron_Tom]

I did my two Crusader Sqaudrons with a HQ Troop of 4 and then four troops of 3.

Appreciate the continued thoughts.

[KillerAngel]

Do we get to see pics? Having a whole tank battalion on the table would be magnificent.

[NDNG_Iron_Tom]

It’s a whole Regiment! Yes, I’ll do a nice photo shoot of it. I just need to nail down the RHQ Troop.

Have this guy for the HQ right now.

[1stBn]

Yes the hq had grants, I think it was just 1 if not 2. I believe Niehorster listed total breakout of the entire combined regt both authorized and actual for Oct 42. Grants were only in the Regt HQ, I can't access that now.

[KillerAngel]

It’s a whole Regiment! Yes, I’ll do a nice photo shoot of it. I just need to nail down the RHQ Troop.

Well one nation's regiment is another nation's battalion
Really can't wait to see it finished. Would be great motivation to get my Battleaxe 2RTR finished.

Yes the hq had grants, I think it was just 1 if not 2. I believe Niehorster listed total breakout of the entire combined regt both authorized and actual for Oct 42. Grants were only in the Regt HQ, I can't access that now.

That was all after they got their Shermans, Tom is looking for prior.

[1stBn]

For the Battle of Gazala? The Grant was brand new so they did not waste that new weaponary in the HQ.

There is a list for all 8th army. https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=104408

--1st Armoured Division (HQ – 8 x Crusader II)
----2nd Armoured Brigade Group (HQ – 10 x Crusader II)
------Queen’s Bays – 44 x Crusader II, 12 x Grant
------9th Lancers – 44 x Crusader II, 12 x Grant
------10th Hussars – 44 x Crusader II, 12 x Grant
------1st Bn / The Rifle Brigade (Motor) – 3 x Motor Co.
------11th Royal Horse Artillery Regiment, RA – 24 x 25# Field Gun
--------239th AT Battery / 60th AT Regiment, RA – 16 x 6# ATG
------44th LAA Battery, RA – 12 x 40mm Bofors AA Gun
------88th LAA Battery, RA – 12 x 40mm Bofors AA Gun
------1 Troop / 1st Field Sqn., RE