TY: How to Make the Most of the Shiny New Toys
List building with the new British Forces Book is incredibly difficult because of all the fine new kit the British gain access to. You will have some hard decisions to make. Before we get into that though, we need to get into the basics of building a good force.
1. Identify the threat. This gets easier the more you know about your opponent or opponents. If it is a pickup game with a friend who only has one army, you will know almost exactly what he plans to throw out on the table and you should be able to tailor your list appropriately.
This will lead to him buying new models to counter your force and spiral into an ever-increasing arms race. This makes Battlefront very happy and therefore I encourage it heartily. However, if you are planning for a tournament the best you will have is foreknowledge of whether it will be exclusively red on blue. Usually, that isn’t possible, so you must plan to fight both NATO and Warsaw Pact. With that in mind, let’s classify our possible threats.
Tier One Main Battle Tanks: Abrams, Chieftains, Challengers, Leopard II, Merkavas, and T-64 and better Soviet tanks. These are characterized by high front armor, and a very potent main gun. They are highly resistant to handheld infantry anti-tank weapons. They are also very expensive in terms of game points and are unlikely to be fielded in high numbers. They are countered by High AT Anti-Tank Guided Missiles, Air Assets, other Tier 1 MBTs and exposed flanks.
Tier Two MBTs: M60, Leopard 1, T-72s, Soviet T62Ms, and AMX-30. They are characterized by medium to poor front armor, an effective gun against all but MBTs and a price point that allows them to be fielded in adequate numbers. They are countered by everything that is effective against Tier One MBTs, with the additions of medium AT ATGMs and Tier Two and Three MBTs. They are also very susceptible to handheld infantry AT in the assault.
Tier Three MBTs: T-55s, Middle Eastern T-62s. The romping stomping horde. Characterized by Front Armor effective only against Handheld Infantry AT and not always that, but comes in numbers that tend to swamp the defense before they can take an effective toll. They are countered by everything except light cannon and light handheld AT. They can also be countered by an infantry screen that keeps them in front of the MBTs and off their flanks.
Soviet Motorized Rifles: (BMP) Characterized by Infantry well equipped with short-range small arms and handheld AT which can deal with everything except Chobham Armored MBTs with little issue and BMP personnel carriers. Infantry requires focused fire from multiple sources to kill and is a great artillery target. Another way to affect them is with an Armored assault by Chobham armored tanks. BMPs get the attention of every weapon that can affect them.
Soviet Motorized Rifles: (BTR) Same as above, but with less emphasis on destroying the transports.
NATO Infantry: Small to medium-sized units with excellent short to medium ranged AT weapons and a high volume of ranged small arms fire. They are countered by Artillery, concentrated fire, and infantry and armored assault.
Air: Helicopter Gunships and Close Support Aircraft. Countered by Air Defense Artillery assets
Artillery and ADA: Self-explanatory, countered by Air, artillery counter-battery, and direct fire.
When building your list you need to account for all of these threats. What units in your list will be responsible for dealing with these threats and in what priority will they receive? So given what we know above, and based on the posture we want the army to have we must determine what to take. I prefer to take a defensive posture since most people prefer to attack and since the “history” behind the war we are fighting is a Soviet push to destroy NATO. I will also ensure the list has a decent offensive capability as well, just in case.
120 point British Mech Infantry List
Since we have decided on a defensive posture, we will base the list around an FV432 Company.
The Uparmored Warriors are not a viable option as they are affected by the Deep Reserves rule and unsuitable for defense, and the cost of the standard Warrior Mech Platoon is equal to TWO FV432 Mech Platoons. The Company as I envision it will consist of the HQ, 2 FV432 Mech Platoons, a full 8-tube Mortar platoon, a 4-tube Abbot battery, and a full Challenger Platoon without ROMOR.
That is 62 points. Since I have decided to go with the high-value Main Battle Tank, I need to make damn sure enemy Aviation doesn’t get a free crack at the side armor, so let’s get all the AA we can now. Marksman platoon, Rapier Platoon, and medium Blowpipe platoon, 18 points of AA goodness with 12 of them having a very decent secondary ground capability.
I will back it up with a Medium Recce Squadron with HQ, three platoons of Scorpions, and the Striker platoon to give them some long-range punch. That adds 23 points and brings us to 103 points.
With 17 points remaining, we should verify we have met all of our criteria and addressed all of our threats aaaaand we haven’t. We are a little weak in dealing with the horde. 4 Milan shots, 4 Striker shots, and the 3-6 shots from the Challenger will probably not be sufficient to stop the horde. So we need to look at ways to get that done.
The other thing that needs to be addressed is how to handle reserves. At 120 points I need 48 to go into reserves. I have 2 units affected by Deep Reserves, the Challengers and the Marksman. The Challengers are a natural choice, and adding all the ADA if my opponent has no air, or the artillery if he has no infantry is a good option. You’ll have to pick a good option that fits your opponent’s army and the mission.
My personal option would be to get a Lynx airmobile platoon and a Harrier flight, but that’s mostly because I already own them. A French recon formation with 7 AMX10RC would also fit nicely, as would a US light Cavalry Troop as well as a number of other combinations of British equipment.
For the more offensive gamers out there, let’s look at basing a list around the Challenger. The same rules apply, but your tactics for employing the weapons will change.
Starting with your core formation, go with an HQ, and two Challenger Troops, a Swingfire Troop, medium Abbot Battery, and Scorpion Troop. that gets us 93 points. Again, with the heavy tanks, they must be protected, but with only 27 points left, we may have to be frugal and go with just full platoons of Blowpipes and Marksman to maximize the dual capability, so that leaves us with just 12 points remaining.
Now you have some hard choices. I personally won’t go into a fight without at least one full strength platoon of infantry. I could drop the Scorpions and have enough points for a Warrior Mech Platoon. That leaves me with only two points and no Recon. I could take an FV 432 Platoon instead, and have 9 left, allowing a Fox Recon Formation of 9 vehicles and enough left over for the Milan upgrade. Or I could drop the Swingfire and have a Warrior platoon and the Scorpions. Where do you want to accept the risk?
I wish BF would fix the Recce Troop make up , as there were only 2 different types .
1) Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment (Tracked) (UK) , had mixed Scimitars and Scorpions .
2) Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment (Tracked) (BAOR) , had Scimitars only .
At the time only Armoured Regiments used 4 vehicle Scorpion troops .
Phil made it clear they aren’t going to change the recce organisation, and also made it very clear he didn’t know what he was talking about.
Not for the first time .
Hi Les, there are six types of Reconnaissance Squadrons, with the three most common being included in the game.
Each of the 12 Armoured Regiments has a squadron of Scorpions.
Each of the 15 Mechanised Infantry Battalions has a squadron of Scimitars.
Both of the BOAR Armoured Reconnaissance Regiments have four squadrons of Scimitars.
The single UK Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment has four squadrons of mixed Scorpions and Scimitars.
The single UK Wheeled Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment has two squadrons of Fox and one of Scorpions.
In addition there are territorials with Land Rovers.
So, 23 Squadrons of Scorpions and 12 of Scorpions in the BOAR, plus 4 of mixed Scimitar and Scorpion in the UK as a training establishment, 2 of Fox, and one more Scorpion.
So, yes, the mixed organisation you love so much existed, but was not at all common and only existed in one regiment used for training in the UK making up 10% of the tracked reconnaissance squadrons. If you want to field it, it really isn’t difficult, but it’s not a major omission!
Hi Phil ,
Actually the Armoured Regiments had a troop of 8 Scorpions , the Armoured/Mechanised (tracked) Infantry Battalions had a troop 8 Scimitars .
TYPE 57 ARMD REGT has 43 Offrs 510 ORs with 57x FV4030 CHALLENGER 1 or FV4201 CHIEFTAIN and 8x FV101 SCORPION. TYPE 43 ARMD REGT was similar but minus 1x Sabre sqn.
ARMD INF BN has 39 Offrs 736 ORS. 45x FV510 WARRIOR, 38x FV432/434, 8x FV107 SCIMITAR, 4x FV103 SPARTAN w/MCT, 8x 81mm MORTARS, & 20x MILAN FPs.
MECH INF BN (TRACKED) has 36 Offrs 724 ORS. 79x FV432, 8x FV107 SCIMITAR, 4x FV103 SPARTAN w/MCT, 8x 81mm MORTARS, & 20x MILAN FPs.
In total there were 3 Armoured Reconnaissance Regiments ( 2 x Tracked BAOR ( 1 each with 1st & 4th ADs) & 1 Tracked UK ( for the 3rd AD)) and two Yeomanry Reconnaissance Regiments with FOX ACs (part of the 2nd inf div) in the BAOR . The Yeomanry Reconnaissance Regiments (UK) in Land Rovers were for UK use only . The 2nd Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment (Tracked) (UK) was for supporting NATO mobile forces (Which you missed out) . So in fact the mixed Scimitar and Scorpion troops were in 50 % of the TRACKED Reconnaissance Regiments .
Sorry my bad , Armoured/Mechanised (tracked) Infantry Battalions had a Paltoon of 8 Scimitars .
Once a cavarlyman , always a cavarlyman .
Opps, 23 squadrons of Scimitars and 12 of Scorpions. Sorry.
Well, I think that should about cover that topic. Don’t suppose anyone would like to comment on the actual contents of the article?
Chris some good points in the article .
What is the minimum pts level you would take 3 Challengers ?
Just running a quick list in my head, I think I would consider taking them at 65 points. Using the same criteria I laid out in the article, I think that’s the minimum force I’d want to have. Infantry platoons and HQ, the Challys, Rapiers to keep the damn Hinds off me, and 17 more points of something with a hard punch and high ROF to deal with the hordes.
LoL amen Chris. BTW great article!
Yes Chris: Great Article and beautiful pictures of your models! Thx for Sharing your thoughts!! Great stimulus 🙂
Outstanding essay as always, Chris! It sure helps to have a player with your fine reputation and many tournament successes give us some insight on what items to consider when making a list.
This is your third contribution in this area and I believe that each one is valuable information that should be studied and filed away so that it can be reviewed often.
Please keep them coming!
Geaux Tigers!
Carl
Sorry but yet again Phil has shown his lack of understanding and knowledge.
A quick couple of points
1) they were troops of scorpions in the tank Regts not squadrons (as correctly stated by Les)
2) infantry have platoons and companies they had a platoon of scimitars not a company
3) some of the regular infantry battalions had land rovers as their recce vehicles (not just the TA)
4) the saffron Waldron mixed recce Regt was not a training Regt it was a regular rotation
5) the wheeled recce Regt didn’t have any scorpions (they were also yeomanry, TA)
6) scimitar gunners were trained on firing at helicopters
7) scimitars had a 3 round clip (rof 1 is harsh when that’s taken into account)
8) previously it’s been stated that the rof of the SLR was based on the garand, SLR has a mag of 20 the garand 5 so 4 times as many rounds before reloading, that is a big difference.
Don’t even start on firing blowpipe from a spartan I’m guessing you’ve not seen a pic of how cramped they were or that they were used against sangers in the Falklands (they were all accounted for and that was the proof that they basically failed).
Milan spam could of been dealt with by having the Milan teams as they were, part of the anti tank platoon and not part of the rifle companies so having an option to attach the existing teams not adding extra ones
Can’t comment authoritatively on your other points, but a Garand has an 8 round clip, not 5. At least the one in my gun safe does. But even assuming the rest of what you say is 100% accurate, how does any of it impact on what is depicted in the game? An M249 SAW has a 200 round drum, but still only ROF 3, so your ROF 1 isn’t all that unreasonable, and I think three different types of recon vehicles from one nation are sufficient, don’t you?
Happy to be corrected, out of interest did they load the full 8 or was it loaded lighter for sand and grit ?
The saw still has an actual rof and that is comparable to other belt fed LMGs and that doesn’t change, the wonders of belt fed ! the SLR had 2 1/2 times the ammo of the garand that would have a big affect on the rof between the 2.
The scorpion and scimitar are the same vehicles just with different guns, I’m not sure why you’d have a problem with historic facts, I’ve not asked for rovers to be included although that would be nice (and they are in game with the ANZACs).
The Garlands came with a standard 8 round en bloc clip. It wasn’t really possible to load with loss. Entrepreneurs built a somewhat modified 2 round clip for use in shooting competitions (10 round string of fire) and did build 5 round clips for complying with hunting regulations that had a 5 round max on the weapons capacity.
As for the comparison between the two in the game, don’t forget the Garland rifle teams also include 1-2 BARs per squad, a fully automatic with a 20 rd capacity. So while we can agree there is a level of difference in the volume of fire between an SLR team and a Garand team historically, they are consistent in how they are treated in the game.
As to the recce, you can build a squadron with Scorpions or scimitars, and put them as core parts of the appropriate formation, or build them as a separate formation all their own. I’m not understanding what needs to be fixed. Please elaborate.
The QDG based in the UK and tasked with supporting 4 div their sabre squadrons were comprised of 2 scimitar and 2 scorpions. It was understood that the GW Squadron would be split up and distributed within the the rest of the squadrons. We’re just trying to get the historic organisation for them, contrary to Phil’s assertions they were not a training Regt it was a regular rotation that recce Regts did.
The SLR had a 20 round magazine’s and to make it fully auto all that was needed was a matchstick (I saw that done on exercise) even without the GPMG that would still leave 5 x 20 shot SLRs in the fire group, compared to having a 20 shot weapon and the remainder 8, I would be interested to know if there’s ever been a comparison done on the reload times, as a clip in the top and changing mags would be different.
To be honest the discussion about rof distracts from a more important argument that the British infantry had SA80’s and LAW80 by the time warrior and chally were in service and the helmets, boots, and webbing had also changed.
Thank You again for the insight, definitely some food for thought. Excellent article.
You said the squadrons were 2 scorpions and two scimitars. Since that is already possible did you mean troops?
As for the SLR, the only SLR team in the game is the HQ group, three guys, not 5. One of which would have a radio on his back and another who would be trying to coordinate a battle. Your point about how easy to modify the SLR to full auto is understood, but have you ever tried to keep a 7.62 battle rifle on target in full auto? I have. It’s not an easy task. So I think that got it right. My opinion.
Chris in an Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment (Tracked) (UK) each Sabre Sqn had troops with 2 scorpions and 2 scimitars with a SHQ of 2 Sultans . Just carrying a Clansman and an SLR was bad enough , never mind firing it ( yes I was that guy ).